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Ep. 157: Mike Bellafiore Interview with Michael Covel on Trend Following Radio

Mike Bellafiore
Mike Bellafiore

My guest today is Mike Bellafiore, the co-founder of SMB Capital, a proprietary trading firm in New York City, and SMBU, its trader education company. Bellafiore also writes regularly for the globally popular SMBU blog, where he shares ideas on how to improve trading performance.

The topic is his book The Playbook: An Inside Look at How to Think Like a Professional Trader.

In this episode of Trend Following Radio we discuss:

  • Real rewards to being a successful trader
  • Passion in trading
  • Why professional traders fail
  • Parallels between trading and writing
  • Bellafiore’s history and definitions of “prop trading”
  • Trading short timeframes and intraday trading
  • The “prop desk”
  • Ups and downs in Bellafiore’s career
  • The early history of SMB Capital
  • Bellafiore’s early struggles with his father’s health concerns, his mother’s death, an SEC investigation, and how “The PlayBook” came out of it
  • The ten attributes of a great trader
  • Trading psychology and mindset
  • Personality types and short-term trading
  • Microscalping and swing trading
  • Expertise, flow, and mastery
  • Process vs. outcome
  • Entrepreneurship
  • The importance of coaching
  • The four ways to become great at anything

Listen to this episode:

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17% Per Year?

Feedback:

Hey Mike, I’ve been wondering something about the returns of trend followers throughout the decades and I would like to hear your opinion. I believe I once heard you say that the average trend follower according to the data available indicates an average return of about 17% annually (Correct me if I’m wrong). However, I can’t help but think of the incredible returns of hundreds to thousands of percent that Jesse Livermore and others in day like Bernard Baruch (don’t know if he was a trend follower) was able to achieve. If I remember correctly, at one point, Livermore was doubling his money almost weekly. What do you think is the reason for such astronomical returns? I think there was more to it than just the 10 to 1 stock leverage of their era. Do you think it was because of Livermore’s poor money management? He did have a tendency to bet to entirely too much on his trades. Perhaps it was the combination of betting too much plus the 10:1 stock leverage. What do you think?

There is not some one set return number for Trend Following (i.e. 17%). Those old guys? You have their audited returns?


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The Best Traders Use Just One Data Point Per Week

Best traders use just one data pointe per week, Michael Covel quote, Trend Following trading, Turtle Trading


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Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Momentum is Everywhere…

Recent article on momentum:

***

There is a vast body of evidence demonstrating that stock returns exhibit momentum — that is, stocks that have done well over the past year tend to continue to do well. And there’s evidence that the momentum premium exists almost everywhere we look, in both U.S. and international stocks (with the notable exception of Japan). There’s also academic research demonstrating that momentum exists in commodity and foreign exchange markets as well. The authors of the 2012 paper, “Momentum in Government-Bond Markets,” studied the period 1987-2011 to determine if momentum existed in these assets. For six countries — Australia, Canada, Germany, Japan, the U.K., and the U.S — they formed long-short portfolios, going long a particular bond maturity if the excess return of the bonds over cash was positive for the previous month and shorting otherwise. For each country they considered three maturity buckets: 1-3 years, 5-7 years and 7-10 years. They subtracted the LIBOR cash return to arrive at the “excess” return. Rebalancing was done monthly. The strategy is easily implementable using highly liquid futures markets. The benchmark is the currency-hedged Citigroup World Government Bond Index. The following is a summary of their findings:

  • Momentum strategies are profitable, generating annual excess returns over LIBOR of between 0.70 and 2.6 percent, and they do so with low volatility (1 percent to 3.6 percent).
  • Australia, with the least liquid of the six markets studied, exhibited the lowest returns to momentum strategies. The three most liquid markets — U.S., Japan and Germany –are the best for momentum strategies. Thus, greater liquidity doesn’t seem detrimental to momentum strategies (and trading costs are the lowest in the most liquid markets).
  • The strategy doesn’t rely on falling interest rates. However, “choppy” markets without direction are detrimental to performance, and returns can be episodic.
  • The excess profits generated are more than sufficient to cover transactions costs as the government bond markets are very liquid.
  • Momentum returns are particularly strong during periods of poor performance for credit markets. Thus, momentum strategies provide some diversification benefit against bond strategies that seek exposure to credit (default) risk.

The authors tested the diversification benefits by combining a 20 percent momentum strategy with an 80 percent Barclays Capital U.S. Aggregate Bond Index allocation, with monthly rebalancing. The simulated portfolio generated excess returns of 0.35 percent a year while reducing volatility — the standard deviation fell 0.40 percent. Investors who take credit risk in their bond allocations should consider adding a momentum strategy. This diversification benefited provided by momentum strategies also applies to investors in value stocks. Because momentum is negatively correlated with the value premium, adding momentum to a value-tilted portfolio improves risk-adjusted returns. While there is a logical risk-based explanation for the existence of the stock, small-cap and value-stock premiums, there is none for momentum — only a behavioral story. Yet, despite the fact that there is no risk-based explanation and that the existence of momentum has been known for decades (thus it would seem that it should have been arbitraged away), momentum persists virtually everywhere we look.

***

Otherwise known as trend following.


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Where To Start in Trend Following…

Feedback in:

Hi Michael Covel, my name is [name] and I graduated from Rutgers University last year with a BA in Mathematics and Economics. I have been following your podcast and have read a couple of your books and am very interested in pursuing a career in trend following. I was always disenchanted with the investment banking paradigm, but really believe in the power of trend following. I have been following the markets for the past 5 years and have invested some of my own money during that time. What are some good ways for a guy just starting out to get his foot in the door in this industry? I believe the experience that comes with working for an experienced trend follower would be invaluable. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Read Linchpin by Seth Godin.

Read Atlas Shrugged.

Read Jack Schwager’s Market Wizard books.

Read my four books.

Listen to all podcast episodes.

Knock on doors if you want a job.

If you want to be a trend trader? Get a system and start trading.

Short list–lots of advice.

Note: Be prepared to never be hired by a trend trader. Then what? Back to my list. You can also consider other options here.


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Manipulation, Talking Heads and Holy Grails

Once you see how the system is trying to manipulate you, you can’t go back to your old way of thinking. The talking heads and holy grails are everywhere you turn:

Michael, I saw this on the front page of the Yahoo finance page this morning and got a good laugh. After listening to your podcast I notice these little nuggets all the time.

Bill

Thanks Bill!


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Richard Dennis Quote: Trading is More Teachable Than Ever Imagined

Stock trading is not an inborn talent, it is teachable. Quote by Richard Dennis, the father of Turtle Trading

Learn more about Richard Dennis.


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.