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Ep. 485: Jared Dillian Interview with Michael Covel on Trend Following Radio

Jared Dillian
Jared Dillian

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My guest today is Jared Dillian, the author of Street Freak: Money and Madness at Lehman Brothers, named one of the top business books of 2011 by Businessweek magazine. He edits and publishes a variety of financial publications, including his own: The Daily Dirtnap. He spent a career as a trader on Wall Street and a short career before that as a Coast Guard officer. He is also an active investor, racquetball player, and an electronic music curator.

The topics are his books Street Freak: A Memoir of Money and Madness and All The Evil of This World.

In this episode of Trend Following Radio we discuss:

  • Behavioral finance
  • Market psychology
  • Housing bubble
  • Dot com bubble
  • Lehman Brothers
  • Starting your own hedge fund

Mentions & Resources:

Listen to this episode:

Jump in!

No Sugar Coating: Give It Straight!

Feedback in:

Bravo Mike, the 1st version of the monologue was spot on. Its exactly what people who feel it is too ‘hard’ need to hear. No sugar coating. The world is not a place of only rainbows and lolly pops. If indeed you get pushback for it know that there are people that appreciate the harder tone. Thank you for sharing that version and please keep up the magnificent work.

Thanks!

If you enjoy this post you may also like my opinion on the Erwin Rommel Book.


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Trend Following Podcast Feedback

Feedback in:

Michael,

This email may be a bit long, but I wanted to express my appreciation for your podcast, your way of viewing the world and for exposing me to many of the critical thinkers I wish I had learned of a long time ago.

Thank you for introducing me to trend following.

I love rules. I’ve always known this, but I also haven’t always understood just how rules can help you achieve anything and everything. I always understood finance and investing to be a complete gamble. You can’t trust fundamentals, you can’t control the weather, you can’t predict crisis, but you can understand price, and you can respond to shifts in price. Price gets you paid. Trend following, and your book The Complete TurtleTrader showed me that rules won’t make you win every single time, but when you follow good rules, you lose a whole lot less than when you role the dice.

A few heuristics I’ve placed on my wall, one is a paraphrase of Richard Dennis: “Following rules is always better than making judgements.” Another by Winston Churchill: “Facts are better than dreams.”

I am a chiropractor in private practice and I practice two techniques, both of which I am very successful at. I have had patients travel from afar who have seen other practitioners who use the same, or similar techniques as myself, and I am able to get results when the other doctors don’t. Some of those other doctors are fairly prominent in the profession, and are even instructors.

It’s a little disconcerting, when someone comes to you for help after they haven’t been helped by someone you look up to.

“Geez, if he can’t help you, what do you think I’m gonna be able to do?”

When I talk with my colleagues I realize they aren’t practicing the technique the way it was taught, they’re making judgements. I follow the rules, and I see success where others don’t. I’m nothing special… I just trust the process. You’ve helped me to understand my focus should always be on process and the outcome will take care of itself.

I’m ashamed to tell you that I haven’t yet personally implemented a fiscal investment strategy (don’t yell at me). I’m trying to save up enough to invest with a systems-styled firm. They typically require a significant amount to start an account, and I just haven’t yet had the guts yet to try it on my own without any hand-holding in the process. I also have a wife and 6 young children, so most of my money gets invested in my family and my practice.

Thank you for introducing me to Nassim Taleb. I love his acerbic assurance that you can’t predict. Period. All you can do is have rules in place to respond to what happens. I so appreciate an Anti-Fragile philosophy and how Taleb has applied it to nearly all aspects of his life, including fitness. I would have never heard of Taleb if it hadn’t been for your podcast.

Thank you for introducing me to Daniel Kahneman, Ryan Holiday, stoic philosophy… I could go on and on.

You’ve become kind of like a business/philosophy coach to me. I think I enjoy your monologues, if not more, at least as well as I enjoy your interviews.

I don’t agree with every viewpoint you hold, (I am a confessional Christian) but that’s OK, I’ve always been real good at not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Again, my sincerest appreciation for your body of content.

Please keep it up.

Yours,
[Name]

Thanks for the great feedback!


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

“What’s going to happen as they get older?”

Find the Flow
Find the Flow

Feedback in:

Hi Michael,

I liked your comments in Episode 480 very much.

I actually have a lot of sympathy for Millennials (and many non-Millennials too), who have grown-up-with (adopted) a life where they allow “interruption” and “distraction” via the mobile phone at any time & place.

How will these people find what Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi calls ‘Flow’, which he describes as a state of mental focus, where people are most happy? I believe it’s impossible, with the never-ending interruptions from the mobile phone. What’s going to happen as they get older?

Thanks for your great podcast!

Best Wishes,
[Name]
Minneapolis, MN

It’s a problem for them, but for everyone.

People are picking tough directions.


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Ep. 484: Evolution with Michael Covel on Trend Following Radio

Evolution with Michael Covel on Trend Following Radio
Evolution with Michael Covel on Trend Following Radio

Subscribe to Trend Following Radio on iTunes

Please enjoy my monologue Evolution with Michael Covel on Trend Following Radio. This episode may also include great outside guests from my archive.

In this episode of Trend Following Radio:

  • Evolution
  • Looking at the data
  • Natural selection
  • Long term macro evolution and short term evolution
  • Fossils do not prove evolution
  • Comparing animal and human bodies
  • Evolutionary arms race

Mentions & Resources:

Listen to this episode:

Want to learn more Trend Following? Watch my video here.

“It was amazing and very powerful…”

Feedback in:

Hi Michael,

Just tuned in to your channel and listened to your Ep 476. It was amazing and very powerful. Thank you for sharing your insights. I am a beginner at this and wanted to get started with the basics. If you could provide with with some guidance and reference material, it would of great help to me.

Thanks Again for you making this series.

Tuning in to Ep 477.

Thanks
[Name]

Start here.

Starting Point
Starting Point

How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

My Journey to Self Discovery through Trend Following

It has been a long journey discovering trend following. Consider an excerpt from the preface of Trend Following:

Trend Following challenges much of the conventional wisdom about successful trading and traders. To avoid the influences of conventional wisdom, I was determined to avoid being influenced by institutionalized knowledge defined by Wall Street and was adamant about fighting “flat earth” thinking. During my research, starting with an assumption and then finding data to support it was avoided. Instead, questions were asked and then, objectively, doggedly, and slowly, answers were revealed.

If there was one factor that motivated me to work in this manner, it was simple curiosity. The more I uncovered about trend followers, the more I wanted to know. For example, one of the earliest questions (without an answer already) was learning who profited when Barings Bank collapsed. My research unearthed a connection between Barings Bank and trend follower John W. Henry (now the majority owner of the Boston Red Sox). Henry’s track record generated new questions, such as, “How did he discover trend following in the first place?” and “Has his approach changed in any significant way in the past 30 years?” Read more on John Henry Products.

Now for feedback in the same vein…

Hi Michael,

I am a trend following trader and entrepreneur based in Miami and Toronto. I have to tell you that you have become a mentor to me even though we haven’t met. You have helped give me the tools, conviction and confidence to believe in trend following and put it into practice. Admittedly it took me a long time to fight through the noise, particularly because I spent 10 years on an institutional equity desk in NY and Toronto. Ironically a traditional commission based institutional broker/investment bank is the absolute worst place to gain confidence as a trend following trader. The brokerage house is all about “the story” and predicting the future never even touching risk management, position sizing or exit strategies.

I first bought your TurtleTrader course around 2000 after devouring the website and wanting more, but I was 26 and on my way up the corporate ladder at Merrill Lynch. My ego always got in the way and I didn’t have enough quiet time to think and read and gain the confidence that is so critical. I also was still searching for the “holy grail” not knowing I’d already found it.

Years later I picked up my study of trend following again after rereading Reminiscences of a Stock Operator. I then read your books and then ordered your current course. I now turn to the podcasts when I want ideas refreshed or motivation and I look forward to hearing your interviews.

This message could not have asked for a better messenger Michael. You kick ass with your podcasts. You are honest and direct and even funny at times. I’ve even got my girlfriend to listen to a few. The episode with Vernon Smith was particularly powerful. Putting this out there for free is mind blowing and I’m very grateful to you for putting out such an incredible body of work. You are affecting people’s lives and I thank you for affecting mine.

Okay, enough smoke up your ass. Tim Ferriss should be on your podcast and/or you should be on his. In his most recent episode (63), he talks about his investing style toward the end and why he is scared to invest in public markets. He can’t deal with the ups and downs of staring at rising and falling equity so he only invests in startups. What struck me is that he is basically following a trend following risk model in his angel investing. He accepts that less than 50% will be winners and diversifies with the assumption that the winners will more than pay for the losers. Considering Tim’s expertise is in breaking down and mastering skills that have scientific and mathematical track records it seems to me that he would be interested in your work. I find it hard to imagine why anyone who wants to make money in the markets wouldn’t be interested in your work. Anyway, worth exploring even just as a reference in your own podcast.

My question is on constructing a model and automating a fairly basic trading system: is there a data feed you recommend and/or software that can generate signals with a data feed? Do you recommend any particular broker that is very reliable and execution based with competitive fees and an online platform?

Thank you very much
[Name]

After initial interchanges a few months later I heard from the listener again:

Your podcasts continue to be a wealth of education, entertainment and enlightenment and I can’t thank you enough. I don’t think people really appreciate the value you are providing. I have spent approx [number] (courses and books) on your products and I feel like there is more than that value in the podcasts alone and I get those for free. If you’re ever in Toronto or Miami (we split our time) let me know so I can buy you a drink

All the best
[Name]

Thanks!

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How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.