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Risk Management, Stops, Exits, Losers and Winners

Feedback in:

Hello Michael, thanks for accepting my friend inquiry. First, I want to say that I am a big fan of your podcast and interviews. Really great stuff. About myself? I have traded for 5 years, but have not traded profitably. I think my largest hurdle is not holding onto the winners. I do not give my entries enough room. Therefore I keep my losers very short, but very often see the position run after stopped out. In a nutshell my strategy is to move the stop to the entry point as soon as the position has a little bit of room. But so many times the position turns around just to touch my stop and then move on. Do you have any advice for me? Would you say that’s just risk management and part of the business? Because I think I miss too many good trades with this strategy. Thanks a lot in advance and have a nice time in Asia.

Frank

My first advice would be to read one of my books. Not a dodge to your question, but my books are filled with the necessary detail not easily put in one email response.


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Money Management Clarity Called For

Feedback in:

I listened to your recent podcast with Jason Russell. The part concerning the importance of money management was interesting. My question: what is meant by money management? It seems to be a term that everyone uses but never really defines and it’s always good, right, just and American. Any trade you do that reduces your risk and volatility is good? And, the big question: when do money management trades become discretionary trades that are used in place of following the system? Back in the early ’90s when I sat in front of my CQG and got spooked by volatility I would override my system exits and reduce my positions only to have to buy them back a few days later. I correctly called that discretion and a lack of discipline – a trader must follow the system and enter and exit only when the system rules dictate it. Now, all of these ideas can be programmed and can be called “money management” when, in my opinion, they are little more than systematized discretion. Is it no less discretion and panic driven when the computer is telling you to do it? So many of the trades are not part of the system – entry, exit, stop loss – that produced the 2000 trade sample size that makes one feel that should rely on a trend following system. What’s the difference between a necessary sample size and “it’s worked in the past?” A lot. CTAs need to face this issue.

Thanks for the feedback [Name].


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

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Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

No Day Trading. Please, No Day Trading

A recent dialogue on Facebook:

Shankar: Does trend following work on intra-day as well?

Covel: No. But why would one want to trade intra-day?

Shankar: Frankly I don’t know…but what I wanted to ask was does it work even on a shorter time frame i.e 5 minute charts. It should work right?

Covel: No. But why would anyone try to trade 5 minute charts? There is no system that trades 5 minute charts. None. Anyone who says that there is… is suspect.

Shankar: Any trading is for generating more profits… is it?

Covel: Day trading is not for more profits.

Shankar: Very surprising…

Covel: It is a fantasy. Find me the track records of the great day traders to match the track records of the great trend followers. Let me save you the research: they don’t exist. Why is that surprising?

Shankar: Lots of strategies have been there. I am talking about an Indian contest. Surprising because lot of people keep talking about it.

Covel: There is nothing special about Indian markets. All markets are the same. Talk about it, yes. Talk. Many people talk about doing drugs. Does their talk force you to want to take drugs too?

Shankar: No.

Covel: Trust, but verify.

Shankar: Ok.

Covel: When you can verify day trading, let me know.

Shankar: Why would trend following not work on smaller time frames?

Covel: Why should they?

Shankar: The philosophy is the same right? There are going to be trends in the shorter time frame as well.

Covel: How is it the same to trade long term trends that exceed a year or longer … and that is the same as a 5 minute bar? I talk about these issues in my books extensively.

Shankar: As long as you are running the profits and cutting the losses.

Covel: Go find the proof for the 5 minute bar trend followers. I will wait!

Shankar: Ideally if the philosophy is the same, it should work on all time frames. Hey this is just a question out of inquisitiveness. I appreciate the work you have done. And let me tell you all traders badly need to know the work you have been doing.

Covel: Ideally? Why?

Shankar: I am talking about from the trend following philosophy point of view, also, if you do the back testing on the shorter time frames, you do get good results.

Covel: You get good results, really? Find me the real proof as asked. I will wait.

More on day trading here and here.


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

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Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Nomadic Podcast, Heavy Metal and Yoga Feedback

From Oct 25, 2012:

On a similar note, I’ve basically spent the past 3 years of my life wandering the globe as a vagabond, with a major emphasis on southeast Asia. So I have a lot of knowledge and recommendations for your upcoming trip (which I look forward to following on the blog/podcast). I am also very likely to be in SE Asia starting fairly soon, so it’s possible that our paths will cross. I’m in LA now, for about 2 more weeks. Anyway, I’ve long wanted to reach out and tell you this stuff, though I have no idea why. I hope you didn’t read this and think “this guy’s some kind of crazy stalker,” because I’m not. But the commonalities have definitely contributed to your podcast resonating so strongly with me.

Regards,
Paul

Thanks for the note Paul. Definitely working toward the SE Asia venture and will definitely want your insight soon! Thanks for reaching out.

From Dec 5, 2012:

I’m in Ubud now, for about 10 days. I imagine that when you talk of coming to Bali, you’re probably talking about Ubud. You must know that the Kuta area, where the bombs have gone off, is pretty much 20 year old drunken Aussie tourist hell. Ubud is a great spiritual place, just lacking a beach (which kind of sucks, but it has lots of other attributes that make up for it in the short term.) I’m basically doing 4-6 hours of yoga a day at an awesome studio called Radiantly Alive, which I highly recommend. No need to go to an expensive yoga retreat here. You can create your own for about 1/4 the price and have more flexibility. Given your path in yoga, you’ll love it here. And the food is great too.

PS: I’m reading Tony Iommi’s autobiography right now. It’s pretty boring, as is Tony himself. Ozzy’s was much better. I hope a Dio biography comes out at some point.

Thanks Paul, perhaps once I get to new year and clear through holidays I circle back for some more great insights!

From May 6, 2013:

Michael, I just wanted to follow up with you on a couple of notes I made listening to your podcasts. First, I love how you used the old school version of NIB, with the long slow bass intro, in the podcast with the John Wooden recording. Nothing like drawing it out at the beginning, before it would really be identifiable as Sabbath style music (unless you know the song, of course.) What could go better together than Wooden and Sabbath?

Second, you talked about Lemmy in another podcast. It reminded me of how I saw Motorhead open for Sabbath twice, including once in 1995 in a small club in West Hartford, CT. I was front row center for Sabbath, though with Tony Martin singing, it was only moderately good. But the club itself had two sides. The other side was a really low grade strip club. My buddies and I wandered over there after the show, and it was mostly deserted. The Sabbath guys were sitting up in a balcony area, and Lemmy was down admiring and interacting with the heinous strippers. He was in all his glory. If it wasn’t so funny, I’d have to say it was sad. But Lemmy isn’t picky.

I hope you’ve enjoyed your Asian trip as much as it sounds on the podcasts. I’m at the beach in Thailand now after a month long tantric yoga course in Rishikesh, India (the “Yoga capital of the world”) and then a few weeks in Nepal, trekking in the Himalayas.

I still recommend Ubud, Bali highly for a place to go nuts with yoga, great food, and good looking western yoga chicks from all over the world.

Cheers,
Paul

Thanks Paul! Sounds like I will definitely have to be checking out Ubud!


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
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Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Manage Your Money or Someone Else Can

Not interested in trading your own money? There are plenty of trend following firms out there to choose from. Some feedback:

I’m reading your book Trend Following, and I’m a believer. I’m not interested in becoming an expert. I would rather have someone do the investing for me, but I don’t see on the website any links for investors who want someone else to manage their funds. Have you got any options for me?

Thanks,
David

My five books are filled with ideas for those who might manage your money. I am not currently in the recommendation game.


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Trend Following Works All Markets All Countries

Some feedback and my responses:

Shankar: Hi, Do you have any Indian students?

Covel: Yes.

Shankar: If yes how are they doing, how many?

Covel: I don’t have access to any student’s brokerage account, but you can read feedback here.

Shankar: Ok.

Covel: I would recommend that in the long run you might want to view yourself in search of a good trading education and research. Judging your potential success by the success or lack thereof from your neighbor will not help you find success. More here on the issues of taking responsibility for your success.


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.

Spread the Trend Following Word

Trend following in Canada feedback:

Greetings Michael, My name is Abbas xxx and I am a 27 year old trend following advocate from Mississauga a small suburb just 20 miles outside of Toronto in Canada. Since I was 14 years old I knew I wanted to be in control of my own destiny and I developed an obsessive passion to learn as much as I could about the markets and what it would take to become a successful trader. My journey led me to the story of the turtles and the bet between Richard Dennis and William Eckhardt on whether or not trading was a learnable skill or if it was a special talent you had to be born with. I was so fascinated by the story that I wanted to learn as much as I could about the turtles and more importantly trend following. Trend following was a subject that was not covered by many resources and trying to learn more about the subject appeared to be quite the challenge until I found an author by the name of Michael Covel. My quest to master the body of knowledge that is trend following led me to your books and materials. Michael the work you have done to spread the word of trend following has changed many lives including my own. You have shed so much light on trend following that you have become to trend following what the sun is to our solar system. Every time I listen to your podcasts I always get goose bumps when you make your plea to your listeners to spread the word of trend following and help you assemble your team. Listening to you speak I wanted to do my part to spread the message of trend following and I see first hand how your voice has not yet even scratched the surface here in Canada. Then an idea came to me on how I could do my part to spread the message of trend following while being a part of team Covel. Michael I want to be an ambassador for trend following here in Canada; I want to spread the message through your materials…The message of trend following is almost non existent in Canada and I know there are many people whose lives could be changed in the same manner that mine was. Michael I would love to hear your thoughts on my proposition. Any feedback is welcome, I am not afraid to hear no, but I want to hear what you think.

Kind regards,
Abbas xxx

Thank you for your nice feedback. Let me consider options!


How can you move forward immediately to Trend Following profits? My books and my Flagship Course and Systems are trusted options by clients in 70+ countries.

Also jump in:

Trend Following Podcast Guests
Frequently Asked Questions
Performance
Research
Markets to Trade
Crisis Times
Trading Technology
About Us

Trend Following is for beginners, students and pros in all countries. This is not day trading 5-minute bars, prediction or analyzing fundamentals–it’s Trend Following.